as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences with women in my life (most of who had an abortion ended up spiraling out into
all sorts of addictions and a couple into suicide except for maybe 3 out of 10-12) i find it odd that my dad who is 63 back in 1987 founded with a Paul Moses dude the right to life chapter in Macomb County in the greater detroit area im much more libertatian on the issue than nearly anything my dad is
into of course he hasnt been involved with anything political since 1993 as
he had to help his younger sister take care of his nephew when he was born

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Snes1423 wrote to DOVE-Net.Debate <=-

as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences
with women in my life (most of who had an abortion ended up spiraling
out into all sorts of addictions and a couple into suicide except for maybe 3 out of 10-12) i find it odd that my dad who is 63 back in 1987 founded with a Paul Moses dude the right to life chapter in Macomb
County in the greater detroit area im much more libertatian on the
issue than nearly anything my dad is into of course he hasnt been
involved with anything political since 1993 as he had to help his
younger sister take care of his nephew when he was born

Well aren't you a special one.



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Re: Right to Life
By: Snes1423 to DOVE-Net.Debate on Fri Mar 27 2026 01:55 pm

as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences with women in my life (most of who had an abortion ended up spiraling out into
all sorts of addictions and a couple into suicide except for maybe 3 out of 10-12) i find it odd that my dad who is 63 back in 1987 founded with a Paul Moses dude the right to life chapter in Macomb County in the greater detroit area im much more libertatian on the issue than nearly anything my dad is into of course he hasnt been involved with anything political since 1993 as he had to help his younger sister take care of his nephew when he was born

Corrected Text
"As someone whose views on abortion are based on past experiences with women in my life-most of whom struggled with various addictions or, in two cases, died by suicide, with only about three out of a dozen having a different outcome-I find it interesting to contrast my perspective with my father's. In 1987, at age 25, my father co-founded the Right to Life chapter in Macomb County, near Detroit, alongside a man named Paul Moses. While I hold much more libertarian views on the issue than he does, my father has not been involved in politics Since 1993, when he stepped away to help his younger sister raise his nephew."

Summary
The text explores a generational divide in political and social perspectives. While the author's father was a foundational figure in the Right to Life movement in Michigan during the late 1980s, the author has adopted a more libertarian stance. This personal shift is shaped by witnessing the difficult long-term personal struggles of women they have known who underwent the procedure. The text also notes that the father's political activism ended Decades ago when he shifted his focus to family responsibilities.

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as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences with women in my life (most of who had an abortion ended up spiraling out into
all sorts of addictions and a couple into suicide except for maybe 3 out of 10-12)

One thing I would wonder here is "was it the abortions that caused the
suicidal thoughts, or are women who are more susceptable to suicidal
thoughts -- and other emotionl issues -- also more likely to get an abortion"?

I lean pro-choice but I also believe the latter part of my question may be
much more likely than the former half.


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On 3/27/2026 1:55 PM, SNES1423 wrote to DOVE-NET.DEBATE:

as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences

with

women in my life (most of who had an abortion ended up spiraling out

into

all sorts of addictions and a couple into suicide except for maybe 3 out

of

10-12) i find it odd that my dad who is 63 back in 1987 founded with a

Paul

Moses dude the right to life chapter in Macomb County in the greater

detroit

area im much more libertatian on the issue than nearly anything my dad

is

into of course he hasnt been involved with anything political since 1993

as

he had to help his younger sister take care of his nephew when he was

born

Right to life also includes protecting people from medical aid in dying,
such as Canada who would rather kill off people than to give them health
care. We have people in America crying for more universal health care, but
I would only support universal health care only if assisted suicide was
banned constitutionally.

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Re: Right to Life
By: Dumas Walker to SNES1423 on Sat Mar 28 2026 11:23 am

as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences with women in my life (most of who had an abortion ended up spiraling out into
all sorts of addictions and a couple into suicide except for maybe 3 out of 10-12)

One thing I would wonder here is "was it the abortions that caused the suicidal thoughts, or are women who are more susceptable to suicidal
thoughts -- and other emotionl issues -- also more likely to get an abortion"?

I lean pro-choice but I also believe the latter part of my question may be much more likely than the former half.

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In most cases it haunts them. i know women that got abortions and they
regretted it. I was dating a woman and done of the reasons I didn't marry
her was because she got an abortion and advocated for it. She even got in
arguments with pro life people and taunted them. Then she said she wanted MY baby. Nope.

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in article 69C80093.28769.dove-deb@capcity2.synchro.net, Dumas Walker (VERT/CAPCITY2) at VERT/CAPCITY2!Dumas.Walker@45.79.37.227 wrote on 3/28/26 12:23 PM:

as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences with
women in my life (most of who had an abortion ended up spiraling out into
all sorts of addictions and a couple into suicide except for maybe 3 out of >> 10-12)

One thing I would wonder here is "was it the abortions that caused the suicidal thoughts, or are women who are more susceptable to suicidal
thoughts -- and other emotionl issues -- also more likely to get an abortion"?

I lean pro-choice but I also believe the latter part of my question may be much more likely than the former half.

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Well let me give you a example of just one of them there was a nice red-head who i knew since we were 8 who was quite shy not all that outgoing no
history of mental health issues she ended up at age 13 getting impregnated
by her blood father and she wanted to keep the child but 8 months into the pregnancy her mom threw her out of the house into the dead of winter why you might ask? beacuse the mom didnt want to feed another kid despite the fact
that this girl had a slightly older boyfriend who had a job and quite a bit
of money thanks to his parents (15 years old) and beacuse of that she had an abortion and she went into such a state of shock afterwards she wasnt
mentally able to conjure words and speak to people for an entire year and a half until a psychiatrist broke through to her since then she started
dabbling with naughty websites then hard drugs and now shes a rabid antifa leftist p*rnstar at age 21 and since charlie kirks death ive cut off all contact with her and reported her 54 year old pimp of a boyfriend to a
website that was set up to get people fired over posts made about charlie
kirk from there day-jobs as what he said which i would rather not repaet was sick and was directed towards charlies children

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Re: Re: Right to Life
By: Snes1423 to Dumas Walker on Sat Mar 28 2026 08:16 pm

in article 69C80093.28769.dove-deb@capcity2.synchro.net, Dumas Walker (VERT/CAPCITY2) at VERT/CAPCITY2!Dumas.Walker@45.79.37.227 wrote on 3/28/26 12:23 PM:

as someone who bases his views on abortion based on past experiences with

Corrected Version
"Let me give you an example of just one of them. There was a nice redhead whom I had known since we were eight years old. She was quite shy, not very outgoing, and had no history of mental health issues. At age 13, she became pregnant by her biological father. She wanted to keep the child, but eight months into the pregnancy, her mother threw her out of the house in the dead of winter. Why, you might ask? Because the mother didn't want to feed another child-despite the fact that the girl had a slightly older boyfriend (15 years Old) who had a job and quite a bit of money thanks to his parents.

Because of those circumstances, she had an abortion and went into such a state of shock afterward that she was unable to speak for a year and a half, until a psychiatrist finally broke through to her. Since then, she began appearing on adult websites and using hard drugs; now, at age 21, she is an activist and adult film star. Following the death of Charlie Kirk, I cut off all contact with her. I also reported her 54-year-old boyfriend to a website dedicated to identifying people making offensive posts about Kirk's death to get them fired from their jobs. What he said was sick and directed toward Kirk's children, so I would rather not repeat it."

Summary
The narrative describes the perceived "downward spiral" of a childhood acquaintance, beginning with severe family trauma and abuse at age 13. The author outlines how a series of tragic events-including an unwanted abortion and a period of selective mutism-led the woman toward a life of drug use, adult entertainment, and radical political activism. The story concludes with the author severing ties and reporting the woman's current partner to an online Watchdog group following disparaging comments made about the late Charlie Kirk.

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One thing I would wonder here is "was it the abortions that caused the suicidal thoughts, or are women who are more susceptable to suicidal thoughts -- and other emotionl issues -- also more likely to get an abortion"?

I lean pro-choice but I also believe the latter part of my question may be much more likely than the former half.

Well let me give you a example of just one of them there was a nice red-head who i knew since we were 8 who was quite shy not all that outgoing no
history of mental health issues she ended up at age 13 getting impregnated
by her blood father and she wanted to keep the child but 8 months into the pregnancy her mom threw her out of the house into the dead of winter why you might ask?

I think I see a couple of things here that could have lead someone with apparently good mental health to lose said good mental health. Sounds like
she had no parental support (actually had the opposite!) which probably
lead to many of the issues she is having now.

Girls who grow up in homes without a father or, in this case, a bad father
are predispositioned to all sorts of mental and emotional issues.


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Right to life also includes protecting people from medical aid in dying,
such as Canada who would rather kill off people than to give them health care. We have people in America crying for more universal health care, but
I would only support universal health care only if assisted suicide was banned constitutionally.

I think if someone is bad off enough, they should have the right to choose
for themselves.

That said, they should also be shielded from the government encouraging
them to choose assisted suicide if that is *not* what they want.

A law or ammendment that prevented the latter would be better.


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Re: RE: Right to Life
By: Dumas Walker to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sun Mar 29 2026 10:18 am

Right to life also includes protecting people from medical aid in dying,
such as Canada who would rather kill off people than to give them health care. We have people in America crying for more universal health care, but
I would only support universal health care only if assisted suicide was banned constitutionally.

I think if someone is bad off enough, they should have the right to choose for themselves.

That said, they should also be shielded from the government encouraging
them to choose assisted suicide if that is *not* what they want.

A law or ammendment that prevented the latter would be better.

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dunno it's a slippery slope. i saw a story of a lady who got it just because she had allergies to some chemicals and could not find housing.she sought the maid. then i see a story about a guy who's going to be homeless and wanted it. then there's a lady who had surgery and wasn't getting better. she was considering it and a family member contacted them. she changed her mind but Somehow it still got done.

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in article 69C942E3.28776.dove-deb@capcity2.synchro.net, Dumas Walker (VERT/CAPCITY2) at VERT/CAPCITY2!Dumas.Walker@45.79.37.227 wrote on 3/29/26 11:18 AM:

Right to life also includes protecting people from medical aid in dying,
such as Canada who would rather kill off people than to give them health
care. We have people in America crying for more universal health care, but >> I would only support universal health care only if assisted suicide was
banned constitutionally.

I think if someone is bad off enough, they should have the right to choose for themselves.

That said, they should also be shielded from the government encouraging
them to choose assisted suicide if that is *not* what they want.

A law or ammendment that prevented the latter would be better.

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oh yeah just wait until its mandated i mean like they alread have thrown out the importance of life itself in order to get to assisted suicide

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Re: RE: Right to Life
By: Matthew Munson to SNES1423 on Sat Mar 28 2026 06:54 am

I would only support universal healt > care only if assisted suicide was banned constitutionally.

That's an interesting take. I'm
ambivalent to assisted suicide as a
policy personally. What is the reason
for your strong opinion? Genuinely
curious, that's an ultimatum I've not
seen out in the wild.


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Re: Right to Life
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Sat Mar 28 2026 07:15 pm

In most cases it haunts them. i kno > women that got abortions and they
regretted it. I was dating a woman > and done of the reasons I didn't mar > her was because she got an abortion > and advocated for it. She even got i > arguments with pro life people and
taunted them. Then she said she wan > MY baby. Nope.

I mean it's contextual. My girl was
forced to get an abortion because she
was developing an ectopic pregnancy.
The thing is a lot of law doesn't seem
to be colored by the medical necessity
of many abortion operations. I'm fully
pro-choice for the public, personally
me and her are not so keen. But the
ability to have that choice is
important. In her case, she is not so
haunted by it, but of course we were
fairly early into the pregnancy. Even
so, she might have died had that
pregnancy been allowed to continue. I
can't abide a law that condemns the
already livin to preventable death. I
do often wonder how many dudes really
look into all the ways a pregnancy can
go really wrong really fast, and if
they would so readily sacrifice their
wife for a fetus.






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Re: Re: Right to Life
By: Snes1423 to Dumas Walker on Sat Mar 28 2026 08:16 pm

Well let me give you a example of ju > one of them there was a nice red-hea > who i knew since we were 8 who was
quite shy not all that outgoing no
history of mental health issues she
ended up at age 13 getting impregnat > by her blood father and she wanted t > keep the child but 8 months into the > pregnancy her mom threw her out of t > house into the dead of winter why yo > might ask? beacuse the mom didnt wan > to feed another kid despite the fact > that this girl had a slightly older
boyfriend who had a job and quite a > of money thanks to his parents (15 years old) and beacuse of that she h > an abortion and she went into such a > state of shock afterwards she wasnt
mentally able to conjure words and
speak to people for an entire year a > a half until a psychiatrist broke through to her since then she starte > dabbling with naughty websites then hard drugs and now shes a rabid anti > leftist p*rnstar at age 21 and since > charlie kirks death ive cut off all
contact with her and reported her 54 > year old pimp of a boyfriend to a website that was set up to get peopl > fired over posts made about charlie kirk from there day-jobs as what he
said which i would rather not repaet > was sick and was directed towards charlies children

To be fair, alot of what you're saying
resulted from the abortion really had
more to do with a shitty home life as akid and teen, from the sound of it. Statutorily raped at 13, cast out in
the street by parents. Little wonder
her life spiraled. As trauma goes I
would wager if yo asked her she'd
group that abortion is as related to
how she feels about her parents.

As for the Charlie Kirk site,
unrelated, it doe amuse me how fast
conservative reverted to cancel
culture. Turns out, EVERYONE does it.
I bet Charlie would have hated that, asa alleged free-speech absolutist.



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Re: Re: Right to Life
By: Snes1423 to Dumas Walker on Sun Mar 29 2026 05:58 pm

oh yeah just wait until its mandated > mean like they alread have thrown ou > the importance of life itself in ord > to get to assisted suicide

Brother I think Trump is plotting a
fascist coup of this country and even Idon't think mandatory assisted suicide is a place we're going to get to
anytime soon. Not impossible though,
since state-sanctioned murder has
happened many times in the last 126
years. Still, I think you might have
some other steps to worry about first
before you get to that point.


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